
The Catchup
Dive into the world of trending topics every Monday morning with us on The CatchUp! Our podcast unravels the complexities of today’s biggest stories, from the rapid advancements in Artificial Intelligence to the latest global news. Engage with our unfiltered opinions and spontaneous, in-depth discussions that dive into AI's impact on society and beyond. Our unscripted conversations offer fresh perspectives and insights, making “catching up” the perfect blend of real talk and real topics. Tune in for thought-provoking analysis and lively debate that will redefine your Monday mornings.
The Catchup
AI and the Future of Work: The Impact of AI on Customer Service and Society
What if your next customer service call was answered by artificial intelligence? What if the future of work is AI-driven, and we're just living in the beginning of this transformation? This episode sets the stage for a deep discussion on these questions as we examine the trend of using AI in customer service and its potential implications on our job market and economy. We debate whether AI has more transformative potential than smartphones, and we scrutinize the drastic move by an Indian e-commerce platform that replaced most of its customer service team with AI technology.
Making bold strides into the world of AI, we discuss the potential pitfalls of AI-based customer service in the modern world. We stress the need for human intervention in refining AI-based chatbot models to ensure they effectively serve customers. As we untangle the societal impacts of a future where AI integration becomes the norm, we aim to provide clarity on the balancing act between AI and human input for efficient customer service.
In the final leg of our discussion, we venture into the realms of retail and food industries, imagining how AI could revolutionize these sectors. We picture a world where AI guarantees consistent quality in the fast food industry, and ponder the ethical considerations of replacing human employees with machines. From boosting customer service efficiency to reshaping societal interaction, we present a balanced view on the possibilities and challenges of AI integration. Tune in for this engaging conversation, as we navigate the complexities and opportunities of AI's role in our future.
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A long story short. There is a owner of a tech company, right, and let me see, because, with all these troubles that you guys have not seen behind the scenes, that article is completely gone. But we're going to find it real quick. Ok, Sunita Shah. He is the CEO of an Indian. It's an Indian e-commerce platform called I believe it's pronounced Dukan D-U-K-A-A-N. He replaced most of his customer service team with a altered version of chat GPT.
Speaker 1:Right Now, this is kind of something you and I have talked about, because you know it is open platform, hence open AI being the company name. If fed directly into what we talked about last week, with those 11 integrating much more AI and conversational AI, of course, but that is allowed him to integrate this into his business. Now, this will lead into a fear that we know many of you have, you know, when it comes to integration of AI, and that's why we're going to talk about it. But this guy literally went on to roast his former employees saying that the bots superior in performance, it's cheaper. He said it was a no brainer and says quote the bot is like a hundred times smarter and constantly a fraction way paid to his human team. So this, you know, can reflect a growing trend or, as I said, a growing concern among people to leverage AI technology for cost cutting and, potentially, job cutting improvements.
Speaker 1:Right, Exactly, Air quote on improvements, Not here to promote that, but that is the crux of what we're going to talk about, man, and before we roll the intro, I mean what we're going to talk about is that we're going to talk about the intro. I mean, what are your initial thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:I mean, my initial thoughts really are just that, you know, it's kind of it's interesting to see that we've gotten to this point so quickly. After you know, generative AI is kind of like, really, I would say, become mainstream. I think that's the biggest, that's the biggest phrase there. So it's interesting to see that this is happening and it and I'm not I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen more often or start to become more and more of a you know newer headline in the news and we'll see essentially the effects of. In some ways, we're kind of like a living. It's becoming more and more like a living study.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, for that doubt, and there definitely is. Oh, you know, work in progress. Anytime that you have something like take smartphones, for example, right, let's take these bad boys, right here. You could not have your phones out at work, right, but also, okay, well, so let's, let's back up. Let's say it's 07, right, yeah, you can have your blackberry out, because blackberry was very integrated into work culture and if you're taking a call, you're taking a call, it's probably a work call, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:But then iPhone comes out and social media blows up, and then all these things. You know, so many times you told, hey, you can't have your phone out at work, but now you have, you know, smartphones integrated so deeply into what we do Technically. I mean, for my job, which I know is unique, you know, being marketing social media, but I have to have this, I have to have it on me, you know, but you have to have yours on you and people in different work ecosystems have to have it. So I bring that up as an analogy because we've seen this change over over 15 years AI, to me, consumer, available, ai is even more going to be, even more transformative than smartphones are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're right yeah, so I think this will be a good discussion.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about the future, what is the future of work, of our economy, and what we believe the right answer would be moving forward. So, with that said, oh man, let's go ahead and get into it. What's going on? Everybody, I'm John and I'm Denison, and this is the catch up. I want to remind you guys of the three best ways to support this show. By the way, you're getting a much more close look, thanks to Denison dropping beats, to what the actual audio version of this is like.
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Speaker 2:Oh, that works.
Speaker 1:Number two Okay, there's a second thing. Oh, there, all right, yeah. So number two please leave us a rating review. Wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching, even if it's a subscribe, a thumbs up. It helps us out a lot to know how we're doing, how we're doing well and what we can continue to improve on as well. And number three there it is. Oh, hold on one. Oh, I didn't see that. There you go All three, man Dang, I would just be holding up three spaghetti noodles right now. Number three If you want to support us monetarily, check out the link below. We have all kinds of new clothes, new shirts, new hoodies. It's getting cold out there, man, you got to have you a long sleeve. I can not recommend. There are long sleeves enough If you want to drink something warm with it. We even have a special secret cover or, I'm sorry, color changing. Oh, coffee mug.
Speaker 2:We sure do.
Speaker 1:You're going to want to check that out again. This is linked wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching, so please give it a look. With that said, let's jump back into our topic, man. So let's see where should we go with this. I mean, I think the big thing is let's address how this plays into the concerns of people when it comes to a more AI integrated society.
Speaker 2:What do you think? Yeah, I mean, of course there's these wonderful headlines right Of where people AI is coming for your jobs, or whatever like that but I think the more rationale thing and of course, in this particular case, it technically came for someone's job, for better or for worse. Yeah, again, like I said before, I don't know if how long this will work. You know, because, as we have experienced plenty of times on the show and all sorts of other stuff, the generative AI, even if it's using the chat, gpt model or any of the other ones, have their flaws and it does require some sort of human intervention or human coaching to be good. And I don't know what these other companies are providing, especially if you're going to use this on more of a customer service side or customer sales side. But I feel like there are some shortcomings there. But, overall, though, I think that I think we'll.
Speaker 2:I think that and it's something that I have felt and I've said too on the podcast is that the AI that we are seeing has been more integrated into our lives over a period, long period of time.
Speaker 2:It's just we're just now.
Speaker 2:It's just now becoming mainstream or just now becoming part of something that we all know and love, right, or I guess it's something that we all like notice more now, right, I mean, for the longest time, if you really think about it, your phones, right, your wonderful your iPhone or your or your Android or whatever like that has been using with the small camera sensors that it has has been using AI to upscale and make those photos better.
Speaker 2:I think that's probably one of the biggest things that a lot of people don't even think about. But I mean, your phone cameras are essentially using computational photography to make better pictures, right? Of course, it's taking the picture just with the little sensor that it has, but there's a ton of algorithms and AI processes. I guess, in some ways, it's more algorithms for the most part, but there's a lot of integration there that makes your photos the way that they are, and it's only become more and more pronounced as time has gone on. I think it's just the the surgeon, the, the the surgeon. Popularity of chatbot AI has become a big forefront, but it's been there for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, man. I think that's a great take on it too. And you know, I was actually wondering, after having read off this situation with this particular company, right, it almost seems like perhaps a more dramatic or a dramatized situation. I mean, first of all, how many places do we go to nowadays that just have chatbots for customer service? It's not like it's new. Yeah, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:And all of old AT&T whenever I have some issues with my service, and I'm talking to AT&T bot. Right, yeah, exactly, give me one moment, sorry. Oh yeah, I actually have to take this.
Speaker 1:Oh, no worries, I'll cover for you, bro. So one thing I was going to say in response to that too. I work with a company called DistroKid. That is when I started working with them. I actually researched them and they were up and coming and now, but now they're the most prolific independent artist aggregate service.
Speaker 1:So what this does is, you know, if you're putting out original music but you don't have a record label, you know it will connect you to this and the place is that the music needs to go Apple Music, Spotify, all that kind of stuff, right, and so with that, your chatbot still even in a situation like that, which again has not been new, is your main form of customer service, right, and you know you find that interesting when it's like technically a small business.
Speaker 1:And you know, yeah, they're working with independent artists, but also they're working with thousands, you know, not just me. So I think it comes down to need. I think the customer service industry I will say, which, of course, you know we want to get denizens' takes on this too, but I do think that the customer service industry is probably more at risk to being killed off due to AI. You know things like that, especially with you know we see the prolific nature through Bard and whatever. I always forget what Bing calls the AI, but it is chat GPT, it's just in web searching format. We see these, how prolific these are and how anyone can have a conversation with them. I mean, hell, they can write your term papers right.
Speaker 1:But it does raise a red flag when it comes to the you know industry side of it, employing people, and I think one thing is you know people hate to see how brash this guy is when it comes to, again, this is Sunit Shah, ceo of Indian e-commerce platform, dukan. Okay, so let me look up. Let me look up Dukan real quick for our own knowledge and see how big this is. So it's found in 2020, relatively new as far as that goes. See, it says it's valued at $300 million, which is pretty insane. Let's say, staff Mount Well.
Speaker 1:This outlook India, which is referencing the same story that we're referencing here tonight, says that the company laid off 90% of its staff for AI. So this is a red flag, right? This is obviously not when Denison and I talk about the benefits of AI and the prolificness of it and potential for it too. This is not what we're talking about, and I think a really good third party perspective is something that I am a light night talk show fan. I'm actually a huge Stephen Colbert fan.
Speaker 1:I've been watching Stephen Colbert for a long time and yeah, so we Um, he has first show on after the writer strike the other day, and Neil deGrasse Tyson came on and, and Dennis and I was just telling the people, too that the Paper in India reported that this layoff was 90% of the staff of this company. Man, wow, yes, I know, and this company is 300 million, valued at 300 million dollars, so that's a pretty big deal, but yeah, so what Neil deGrasse Tyson said is that On this interview with Stephen Colbert is that he has seen AI be integrated in our society for way longer, but it wasn't until it started to be able to write our kids term papers or young people's term papers.
Speaker 2:That we don't.
Speaker 1:Doesn't that? Don't have kids spoiler-like, yeah, but but young kids term papers right that people start freaking out, which is relatively true. You know, sweeping generalization, but it really was. I mean, that was always the biggest concern, which was so weird. I had to tune out of the media for a while because Denison got me on chat GPT Right when it launched and we dove in and we had a breath of knowledge that when I would turn on the news, all I would see is, well, people are concerned about how kids are learning in school. Now, blah, blah, blah. You know and it's a Niels point to. He was like well, you know, one thing we could do is make the exams oral. So you have to repeat it and show that you did learn it. You know, it doesn't matter if you learned it through AI or what have you, but just show that it's retained in your brain.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm pay teachers more and have more of them. You know which I completely agreed with, and so these are really the two differing Viewpoints. You know that we're we're debating. I understand people don't want their jobs to be taken from AI, mm-hmm, but this is something that I've preached Really ever since we started doing this. Man is just if you Make yourself better by working with it, which really, again, the key there is work with it.
Speaker 1:If you work with it, you're gonna be Right where you need to be. You're gonna maintain relevancy. You're gonna have increased productivity.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:What that, where that takes you, whether it's a four-day work week or you're just Having to do more during your regular work hours. I don't know that's a TBD, but Without a doubt I think the answer is Maintaining relevancy. Yeah, with AI, which I have not had again in my job, my career, I have not had a situation where I'm like, oh, I regret doing that, you know yeah, exactly no, I think.
Speaker 2:I think that's Very, very true. It's similar to like when computers came bursting on the scene, right, the individuals who were able to adapt quickly and be able to, like, really take on computers and use it in their day-to-day lives and be able to Use it in their work lives, you know, thrived. Where people who had a little bit more of a difficult time, they were more affected by the change than the others. So I think you know, just keeping up on it and it and I should really have to say too, just like you were saying, like it doesn't even have to be like a full immersion, right, it's, it's doing small things, right, just integrating it slowly into your day. One, you're gonna find a lot of Incredible help that it can provide. But two, it also helps you Be able to be in the know.
Speaker 1:Right gives you a better opportunity and you're getting a chance to use these tools you know, much more competitive way right, I agree, and again, you know not to Keep harping on this, but I just think it's a great tactile reference for this situation, which is Windows 11, having a part of the AI be able to go through your emails for you and say this is what you need to focus on today. That's dude. Oh my gosh, you know you will go into the office, you have busy week. It's Friday, you're white, you go in, you like Password boom, here's what you need to think about today. Perfect, just start doing it. You know, I mean. Mm-hmm. Those small things add up To such a different mentality and approach to life when you don't have to worry about all this other stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean yeah, no, you're right, exactly it. Really it gets you to a point where you can really just Kind of jump in the autopilot. Yeah and so he's right. It leaves out all the distractions. In some ways, it's like your blinders, your AI blinders, to help you stay focused in your one, in the Spot where you need to be, because it's so easy, especially nowadays, to just get caught up in everything and like go everywhere.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and I'm a big compartmentalization guy this is seemingly come up a lot lately, but to be able to, I mean you, compartmentalize. So what? What do I have to do today? Oh well, oh my no, you don't even have to think about that, you're like, I'm just doing my job today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't have to worry about what that is. I don't will have it laid out for me. You know, mm-hmm. So I think it's a great tool. I know that you and I are of the same mindset on this, so let's, let's take a step back for a second right. This is obviously I was saying I mean just a minute ago as well that the customer service industry is probably more at risk with these types of innovations than Perhaps any other. You know and again, that's not new, like we were saying earlier but what would you say like what, what concerns, or what jobs and career paths would you be concerned for as AI becomes more prevalent?
Speaker 2:You know it's kind of hard to predict because I would say that AI, the AI, ai that we have currently has a lot of of really, um, it's very broad, right, it's very general. So I would say, well, I should say it makes it to where there are certain jobs that just doesn't really make much sense for it to take over as much as we thought it would right, because most people are like, oh, it'll be the quick, simple jobs or whatever like that that are going to be taken over. But you know, chat GPT is not going to take over, like I don't know, lawn work or or or or like your cashier type deal. But it can to an extent, yes, but it could take over some of the more customer service roles, such as like, like just normal support roles, stuff that's kind of already automated in a certain avenue, like with some of the automated systems, like I said, not to harp on AT&T, but they just happen to be my internet provider. But you know you can call AT&T, right, and you're going to get a bot, right, you're, most of your stuff is going to be a bot and then if the bot can't fix your issue, it's going to go to a person. So I think you know I can easily see it to being where maybe it you get that first line of bot right, that that not super smart bot and then it transfers over to like a chat GBT bot or something similar to that, a little bit more advanced, that's able to ingest that information and be able to spit out answers that hopefully, for the most part, should be correct and be able to help the customer get to the correct avenue. Or even if you know someone's on the website they need a quick chat chatting directly through there. I can see those jobs going away a lot faster than some of the others.
Speaker 2:I can also see one that I think a lot of people don't think about are some of the maybe in some ways project management jobs or maybe even scrum master jobs, because a lot of that is just compiling, compiling the data right and then just summarizing that data and saying, hey, these are some things that we can work on. I could see something similar to like an AI or a more, more advanced version of chat GBT that can auto prompt itself that says, hey, my team is or this team is having issues with this, this and this. We're seeing this trend. What is the best course of action, go right. And then it figures out what is the best course of action off of the information that it has provided, and then going back and talking to the team and saying, hey, guys, this is what we need to focus on, these are our goals. Boom, boom, boom, right.
Speaker 2:Or you give it a big project, right? You just say, hey, we need to, we need to create a, I don't know. We need to build out this one building and it needs to have this, this and this, right, boom, you give that to the AI and it goes through and says, okay, so what do we need to get this, this and this done with the organizations, resources, all sorts of stuff like that. Here's our roadmap. Boom, do this, this, this, yeah. And then.
Speaker 2:And then you can have it to where it's like. It creates reminders for itself, right, where, oh we're, we're six months away. Sure, let's check in, in with everybody, let's grab the next amount of data to see how far we've gotten, and then let's you know what do we need to do from this point on. Boom, new roadmap. And then just kind of keep pushing yourself slowly through until you get all the way into the spot.
Speaker 2:So, certain managerial jobs, I think have a possibility of getting integrated or or maybe possibly pulled, because those are chat GBT I'm just going to use that as the example but a lot of the AI chat but it seemed to be really, really good when it comes to conversation, like if you're just do a conversation with a person and just having that human connection. It's really good at mimicking that feel of like actually talking to a human on the other side and I think that is half of the amazingness of of chat GBT in general right Of just how well it can mimic that and how well it can probably it can connect to people and if you put that in a managerial role, that becomes pretty darn powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, without a doubt, man and that was actually something I was mentioning earlier too is just how you know, I don't know, it would obviously depend on the job. If you're doing routine projects, you know, perhaps that would work just fine, you know? Oh, you know this is. You know, say that you weld for general motors, right, I mean, that is okay. Yeah, simple AI management for you know, for that kind of a thing. Oh, we have a new car. These are the points you have to hit when it comes by on this part. You know that kind of a thing. That's a good outside perspective. I'm not gonna lie to you.
Speaker 1:My thought was a little more retail, but specific retail. For example, you know, if you go to a Marshalls or a TJ Maxx, you're gonna have people there. You know what I'm saying. It's not gonna be like, oh, hello, person, what clothes would you like to wear today? Yeah, but things like Carvana, you know, you could have that totally run by AI. Yeah, that's true. Other than that, you probably would need human customer service for you know that kind of stuff, but still, yeah, you could have that run totally by AI.
Speaker 1:One other that I could see changing, and again, why caveat this, dennis, and I don't want this to happen. There are ways, I think, you could integrate AI into these workflows. You know, we don't want people to lose their jobs. I feel like the fast food industry man. Hear me out. Everyone uses McDonald's as the example, but for simplicity sake, we'll do that. You know they haven't changed their menu for over a decade. I mean, I think it's been longer than that, yeah. Yet you don't really fully know what you're getting when you order it, because it's always made by different hands, and you know and not that that's a bad thing. I mean, you know, I have a favorable, bold Chick-fil-A up here, versus the one I would otherwise go to. You know, I mean, it's not that thing by any means, but one thing I could see them doing is making sure the quality is high while the financial loss of ingredients is low, which is annoying that they do that, but they do and then keeping it consistent all the way through with AI production, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see that. I can see that, and funny enough that you talked about that as, because I believe in somewhere I believe it's in North Texas McDonald's opened up, actually a fully automated McDonald's restaurant. That's right, it doesn't, but it makes the food automated too, I believe so I believe there's, like it's supposed to be, like almost zero humans know where it makes the food and then it, you know, gets it out to the customer and boom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm only about a year behind on that, apparently. Yep, sure enough. Yeah, just shows this conveyor belt delivering the food out the window. Yeah, it's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. And again, you know we're not in favor of this by any means. I am a fan of AI, and Denson is too, obviously, but I'm a fan of how it can elevate us, you know, not replace us.
Speaker 2:That's not what we're here for.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And so you know you could still have a customer service interaction from the standpoint of working at the McDonald's, right, and maybe make the food, but you oversaw that was made well, and hey, you guys need anything else. Is there anything I can grab for you? That kind of stuff, right? I think there's tons of potential, tons of opportunity here, and it is sad that then you have people like this, sumit Shah that we're talking about that, just laid off 90% of his company in favor of AI. You know what I mean, but it's only a three year old company, so maybe he doesn't know what he's doing yet. Yeah, but anyway, yeah, man, I mean this is. I think we covered a lot. This is really all I had to say about it, unless did you have anything you wanted to add?
Speaker 2:No, I mean I just to kind of piggyback off of off of what you said. You know I think we can get sorry, I'm having the multi task a little bit here, but I think that a I think we can really do a really amazing job. Um of Gosh darn, I'm sorry. I think we can do a really amazing job of integrating AI into our day to day lives, whether it be work lives or anything like that, to be able to enhance our productivity, enhance what we do, how we do it and also how we interact with each other. I think it has the ability to get it to where we as a society are able to come together better than we were before, because we can use AI to take away some of the distractions that were actually causing us more harm than good that has developed from our modern society. I think that we can use some of these headlines and these articles as a good example of where not to push too far into and to really get us in the right direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think you said it very well. It's just about keeping an open mind, but also not a selfish one. I think that's what we're seeing here. In this situation, is this dude thinking, bottom line only not what's best for my customers, or things like that? I think that's a short-sighted and potentially damaging way to approach this. Like I said, I completely agree with everything that you said. I think we had a good discussion on this and I'm thankful for every one of you that jumped on this live stream, especially so late in the evening. We always have a good time.
Speaker 1:Remember, please follow, subscribe wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching, jump on the live streams with us each Thursday night. We want to hear your thoughts. We would love to have your input on this topic, even if you're on the rewatch. Let us know what you think about it. Number two, let us know what you think. Leave us a rating review. Wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching, helps us out a lot. Then, number three, you want to support the show. Go check out the link wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching, and check out our shop. We got bunches of cool merch in there that we think you're going to love. With that said, you got this podcast. You got Loki Season 2. You got a new Drake album coming out. You don't need more content.
Speaker 2:Exactly, Exactly, For my gamers. You also have Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty out. You know, Spider-Man's around the corner.
Speaker 1:How dare you not mention Assassin's Creed, Mirage man?
Speaker 2:Anybody care about? No Assassin's Creed bro.
Speaker 1:Jeez, I'm about to go right up on you, bro. Now I have to say a quick side note. I watched the trailer for Assassin's Creed. The whole time I was watching it I was like this looks like what they put out 10 years ago. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not alone with that thought. Anyway, so I digress on that. Thank you, guys, so much for listening, thank you for watching, and we'll catch up with you next week.