The Catchup
Dive into the world of trending topics every Monday morning with us on The CatchUp! Our podcast unravels the complexities of today’s biggest stories, from the rapid advancements in Artificial Intelligence to the latest global news. Engage with our unfiltered opinions and spontaneous, in-depth discussions that dive into AI's impact on society and beyond. Our unscripted conversations offer fresh perspectives and insights, making “catching up” the perfect blend of real talk and real topics. Tune in for thought-provoking analysis and lively debate that will redefine your Monday mornings.
The Catchup
Unpacking the Ethical Quandaries of Genetic Data
Do you ever wonder what the intersection of biotech and geopolitics looks like? This episode ventures into the realm of genetic testing and the geopolitical implications of a lab gifted by China to Serbia. FireEye, a state-of-the-art lab, stands at the precipice of pushing the boundaries of what we know about viruses and human genomes. As this technology extends its reach across four continents, the consequences could be monumental, ranging from bio weapons, mass surveillance, to harvesting global genetic data. Strap yourselves in for this fascinating discussion on the possible repercussions of this development.
As we navigate the profound complexities of biotechnology, we shed light on the ethical dilemmas arising from the analysis of genetic data. The rapid progress in biotechnology, accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic, has flung open a Pandora's box of potential misuses and global geopolitical impact. We also venture into the realm of a potential hierarchical society where the affluent gain ascendance through genetic modifications.
Switching lanes, we steer towards the world of electric vehicles, specifically into the impact of supercharging on EV batteries. We'll tread into the territory of battery degradation, advancements in technology to maximize battery life, and the different types of EV chargers. With the looming presence of giant oil companies like ExxonMobil and their potential push for alternative fuels, we dissect the trials and triumphs waiting in the future of EVs. So tune in, as we discourse on the electrifying journey of the future of mobility.
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Now I want to jump into this right off the top. This is not going to be what the whole episode is about. If you didn't come here for this, please stick around, because I think you will like the second half of this episode. This was a big, big story today. Basically, we're talking about a development in the world of biotech and geopolitics the crazy thing about this story, and also. Before I keep going, man, let me just remind myself to do the main thing I gotta do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you gotta share it. You gotta share it. Get it to those people's eyeballs so everybody can check it out.
Speaker 1:Something finna hit their eyeballs. Man, it's gotta be this, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I don't know what I'm saying, man, excuse me. Thank you guys for tuning in tonight. You guys are rad, all right, let's get this thing shared, all right, double shared, all right. So here's the crazy thing this today I want to attribute this properly this report comes out from Washington Post. What the crazy thing about it is to me is it low key in a certain way. I didn't just say low key because Dennis and I spent 20 minutes talking about Marvel. In certain ways, it affirms some conspiracy theories when the pandemic was just taken off. Okay, so let's hear some quick details on this.
Speaker 1:In April 2020, china gifted Serbia a cutting edge lab called FireEye, which has the capability of genetic testing, not just for viruses, it turns out, though that's what it was sold as but also it is for human genomes as well. These labs have proliferated globally, reaching four continents in more than 20 countries, including Canada, latvia, saudi Arabia, ethiopia, south Africa and Australia. It's interesting because there's a lot of it in Africa. I don't know why that is or what they're trying to gain out of it. When you read on, it certainly feels like they're trying to gain out of it. I wouldn't say anything different for a first world country.
Speaker 1:Necessarily, when you're talking about China. It does make you wonder what they're trying to gain from this. What's the concern? Let's find out, friends. Human DNA database, fireeye labs could potentially contribute to a massive collection of global genetic data. Chinese officials have framed these efforts as beneficial for public health and scientific research, but Western analysts worry about other applications, such as bio weapons or mass surveillance. There's a world arrangement of rules of what can and cannot be used in war, which is very weird, right? What is what it is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a sort of the Geneva Convention.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly that would prevent bio weapons Mass surveillance. I think of I've said this a few times over the course of this show Minority Report. There's a scene where Tom Cruise's character walks into this mall and scans his eye and knows who he is, what he's interested in and does custom advertisements as he walks into the mall. Stuff like that, right. That's not the report. Another concern is economic leverage. Genetic information is often dubbed the new gold in scientific circles. China has its ISM becoming the world leader in biotechnology by 2035. If it succeeds, it could hold immense economic and strategic power over its global rivals, particularly the United States. So let's dive into that one a little further. What does that mean to you, man?
Speaker 1:I was trying to decipher that one too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a hard one. I guess my thought process on it is that it can be that there is just overall, more like they're ahead when it comes to. I think it's something akin to one of the similar to one of the AI gosh darn. One of the more recent AI models was able to map all the proteins known to man essentially right Like get a full genetic structure of all of those proteins. So I think it would be something similar to like. If you have that type of data, you can now use that data to better create different types of gosh darn treatments, medicines, all that stuff right and so, or go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, dude, you had opened up exactly where my mind was going. Man, I'm thinking the exact same thing. It makes it I mean, it just feeds right into that major conspiracy theory they're using this to intentionally perhaps or maybe not, but they could intentionally trigger another pandemic that would take out non-Chinese people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, you could have it. Yeah, because technically right, in theory. I guess that's the biggest thing that we really need to say is that this is a theory, of course, but in theory there is a possibility of you have enough diverse genetic material and then you can say, okay, so this type of racial group, right. Or in truth, I should really say this type of person from this ethnic background, because in truth, race is more of a political construct rather than an actual, like factorial one but you could say, someone from this ethnic background has this type of genetic sequence, like all of them share this type of genetic sequence, and then I guess, technically, you could modify a virus or something similar to that to only target this group of people. Now, of course, there's going to be outliers, just like they're always in any sort of study, but yes, you could technically target it that way.
Speaker 2:Now you can also do this the inverse way, right? You can create a vaccine that only that works perfectly, right? This is at the peak of this right. You could essentially create a vaccine or cure for essentially any type of disease that would affect this one single person, because you have enough genetic information to understand what will and won't work really well with their genetic makeup, and then you'd be able to go from there, so you can do the same thing. You can do something really great with it, or you can do something really bad with it. That's kind of where that leads into right.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a really great point, man, but still, it would be self-serving man, because if another world pandemic happens, whether it's because of them or just happenstance, they have now placed themselves, through manipulative behavior, to be at the top of the market for it. But you're right, I think we nailed it on the head and, man, I'm only halfway through what we're going to talk about on this. It's just crazy People who were first labeled as conspiracy theorists are now being validated.
Speaker 1:man by major publication in the Washington Post. I will say I never fully doubted the idea that China was benefiting on this Shoot man. There might be ways there are not being reported about how America benefited on this. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I do want to state that it's like a partial validation right.
Speaker 2:Because it's not a full verification or anything like that. We're not admitting that any of these conspiracy theories are fully true or anything like that. It's just there is a higher amount of evidence that the Chinese government or the Chinese Communist Party, or I guess I should really just say the Chinese government, may have been using this institution to be able to collect multiple sets of data or DNA data to use for various research purposes. That is the facts that we have currently. Right, we can infer from what has been used in some of the other data that we know about, or there's some of the other facts to have a little bit more to be able to get to the conclusions that we are at. But I just wanted to say that just as a disclaimer.
Speaker 1:With that, dalla, I mean, you're absolutely right on that. I do think that if you add up everything, given this situation at the start of COVID-19, right before it came a pandemic here in America, which was one of the last final places right after that they start rolling this machine out Without everything else, you'd be like man, it could just be coincidental timing. It sounds like that would take something that takes a lot of prep to get ready. But man, it's just so weird how it was also beneficial in helping to find the cure to COVID-19. It's a temporary cure, right, it's like flu vaccine. I find it interesting, bro, I'm not trying to lay claim necessarily, but this again official article from the Washington Post, not biased is leaning their direction a little bit, don't you think? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think they may be. I think that the article does have some sort of lean towards. It could be something that they were, there are other collecting data for, or they use the moment of COVID to collect data to better create something that could be something like a biological weapon or something similar to that.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:But I don't know. Honestly, it's hard for me to fully say. One thing that I will say too, going into what you were saying, is that it is interesting to note that, of course, I'm sure this organization also helped in the efforts to be able to create a vaccine in a record time fastest time that we've ever been able to create a vaccine for a disease like this. Absolutely I do think that it did help in that regard, but I do think there is something to the fact that when COVID happened, they jumped out and automatically started collecting this type of information that could be incredibly useful for, say, another trial in some ways, right.
Speaker 1:And I'm using that mRNA technology for this vaccine and mRNA people got and still are obviously nerve wracked. Oh, they have this new technology. They're trying to control us. Mrna had actually been worked on and built a foundation out of for cancer vaccines as well as paid for, and what's great about mRNA vaccine in general is it has this adaptive foundation that you can alter to treat this, that, this, that. So the goal is to speed up the times of critical vaccines, which just happened to be a worldwide blessing that they had already started working on that before COVID hit.
Speaker 1:So, moving on with the issues here, data security and privacy Critics point out that the Chinese company BGI, which manufactures FireEye Labs which was the name of this machine, or who built this machine has deep ties to the Chinese government, raising questions about who ultimately has access to the sensitive genetic information. In ethical concerns, some US officials argue that BGI and its subsidiaries have been involved in analyzing genetic material for the Chinese government's crackdown on ethnic and religious minorities, although BGI denies these allegations. Another thing that I read that's not included in this rundown is that they also received I'll go back and verify this, but they also received genetic material from the US.
Speaker 2:Interesting yeah.
Speaker 1:Let me double check this real quick. Okay, that's what it was. Vgi acquired the patents to the American firm's DNA sequence machines and began making and selling the equipment through a spin-off company.
Speaker 2:I see Interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, but oh, this is what I found out. Okay, this is a critical piece of information. Okay, by 2019, their business partnerships and stock purchases, nearly two dozen Chinese companies had acquired the rights to genetic data and other private records of US patients. According to a 2019 report prepared by the US government US China Economic and Security Review Commission. During the same period, us law enforcement officials were tracking hacking attempts involving companies with large troves of genetic data. Justice Department and Dijkman 2019 accused Chinese operatives of illegally accessing patient databases at four US companies. The hackers are believed to have siphoned the private healthcare data, including DNA information, of more than 80 million Americans. According to prosecutors man that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yes, so that went on before this machine started rolling out, so it sets a bad tone. You know what I'm saying? It's all going down at the same time. Bgi, the parent company of this tech, is rolling out, with America trying to get more DNA tech. Right yeah? Now let me be clear. We view this as like the most synthetic way to tell people apart. Right, yeah, but really, that technology is needed for the future of making a world that is cancer-free, virus-free, pandemic-free. It is critical, I hate to say it.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is, it is yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's a good side to this, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's just like the AI tools that we've talked about many times during our podcast, which is they can be used for amazing, wonderful, great things, and then they can also be used for very terrible things, and it's just one of those things that you have to hope that it's used properly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean that's the role of a new technology, right? Although, again, the difference with this is the rollout of this technology at the time that it happened and taking advantage of desperation when needed materials or in need for materials and just resources for the pandemic, right, so we'll move on with this. It says the role of that. Here's the role the pandemic played. Covid-19 served as an unexpected catalyst unexpected, just to be clear. So even Washington Post is saying it was not intentional to be the catalyst for this machine. Okay, it was not intentional for this global genetic data collection effort. The pandemic opened doors for Chinese companies to deploy their technologies worldwide under the guise of public health, which is allowed for an expansion, and collecting genetic data. So they did use it, according to this report, in a manipulative way, but they didn't push forward the pandemic to make it work. So that's a critical piece.
Speaker 2:That is a really good for the context of it.
Speaker 1:It is. While the advancements in biotechnology offer promising avenues for healthcare and scientific research, they also present challenges and ethical dilemmas that cannot be ignored. As China aggressively pushes its biotechnological capabilities, it's crucial to consider not just benefits, but also the potential for misuse and the impact on global geopolitics. Sorry, so here's what I think about this. I do believe that we did touch on what the concern would be about this. There's this movie and if you're in the comments, let me know if you remember what it was called. I'm going to do a quick Google search let's see if I can find it. Let me know in the comments if you've seen the movie Gadica. Have you seen that, bro?
Speaker 2:I have not. I have not seen Gadica.
Speaker 1:Believe it or not, man, I actually watched this movie in one of my high school classes. I believe it was.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:What this movie is about is genetic engineering and how you basically create an even more separated, like hierarchical society. People that run it, profit off of it, live big time like sports stars. Their family was rich and were able to afford genetic engineering that give them the abilities to run faster, jump higher, think quicker, whereas normal people, who are not necessarily dumb or lack anything, they just don't have that genetic twist or engineering to them. They live in poverty. I'm sorry, it's not a blessing if they did that. They live in poverty because they can't afford the experiment. So we'll get them to that next almost super human level, and that is, I think, a very realistic approach to something that could happen. I say it would, but it's those and among the things that we mentioned earlier that really makes me concerned about this gathering of genetic data.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, same, same Because, yeah, there's just like you know, like the article said, like you said, dna is probably going to be the next frontier when it comes to overall.
Speaker 1:Just development of human health.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, Human health as well, as you know, of course, human weapons right.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, how do you feel with human weapons? Are you thinking like GI Joe type people?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, technically there is, there is that possibility. But I was also thinking of, you know, biological weapons. You kid, because I mean you know technically?
Speaker 1:like Mega man, yeah man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, or you know you could, you could create I don't know the Hulk or whatever.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I mean obviously not as something as comic-ish as that, but you could. You could do something to that effect If a person's super human strength through that genetic engineering right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Exactly, and you know they I lost it, but I think you know it gives an upper leg to, or upper hand, sorry, gives the upper hand to people who have, you know who are the have nots and who aren't the who can't afford that process, right, it's similar to which I would imagine this would come into this play, but it's that designer baby aspect. Right, you can design people to be, you know, I don't know the best, right, you can make sure that they are resistant to, you know, developing, say cancer, and resistant to developing, like, different sorts of diseases, as well as you know the regular stuff of like I don't know, being able to run super fast, be able to have, like I don't know, super human strength and all sorts of other stuff.
Speaker 1:Sure, well, absolutely For a war, and that's the thing you just can't help but think about with our world, right? It's how this benefit them. It may not be the initial intention with some of these people, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:They carve that genetic material on file right and they look at like the Dwayne the Rock Johnson. They're like you know what? What if all of our people had that strength with Dwayne the Rock Johnson right? That capability of growing that strength. It just is going to help their human side of military fighting. You know there's some rumors that, like top secret intelligence, people have that kind of stuff manipulated in them you know or have technology that give them that kind of strength.
Speaker 1:So to be able to manipulate their genetics where it's natural, that'd be insane man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 1:One thing I do want to say about this, because you know us if you've been here for a while we're not ones that like to attack people based off of a political story, right? One thing I will say from our perspective, right? Well, specifically from mine as well. You see the government attacking TikTok, right? Oh man, don't like TikTok. Steal our people's data, don't steal their information, right? Meanwhile, facebook slash Instagram very much does that, right. But here's the difference they're American. You know what I'm saying and I trust Washington Post. I'm not putting it against them. Necessarily. For them, it may be a reason that they were able to collect this data, but not for a similar type of work going on the United States. You know what I mean. I mean, you got me hard to believe that China is the only one that's putting this together, bro.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, especially one of the lines that we read in there they are working to be one of the world leaders. One of the world leaders, right? So guess who that other one is? It's really us, man. So I think this is something that we should cover as time goes on because, to consider, that's what you know going to be a developing thing, and developing within the next 12 years, that's a pretty big and considerable thing. So, on one hand, it shouldn't enlighten us for the future of healthcare. It really should. It really should that. I mean, for many people that should just be a world-relieving kind of a thing. But on the other hand, man, you just don't know what's going to be going on behind the scenes. Yeah, Like.
Speaker 1:UFOs man. We know they're out there. We don't know what's happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you're right, you really could be there.
Speaker 1:It could be, man. So anyway, I think we had a good discussion on this. Let's go ahead and slap into our next topic, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:I got the best way to do it. Let's roll the intro man. All right. Now that we've tackled some heavy geopolitics right, let's shift our focus to something a little closer to home Electric vehicles okay, you'd be surprised to find out that some common assumptions about EV batteries are not holding up under scrutiny. But before we run into that, I want to let you guys know the three best ways to survive and support this show. Number one let's get the little. There you go. Okay, oh, wow, some 1.8 millimeter cables.
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Speaker 1:Keep your phone warm, get you a nice catch up phone case. We got all over our shop. It's affordable, it'll go straight to you and it will help us out as well. So please check that out and we'll go from there. I dramatized that one. So yeah, let's get into this next topic. The common belief is that supercharging electric car battery leads to faster degradation than regular charging. It's kind of like things we learned with my laptop, my phone. You want to have the proper chargers on it, especially with phones. Man, I've encountered this with my iPhone. It's easy to find things that don't charge it fast enough. That drains on the battery. So there's a certain window for most batteries. Maybe you can explain that better, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:So I guess when I mean battery degradation or what we, when we say battery degradation, the real big thing is is, over time, a essentially as a lithium ion cell because this is more specific to lithium ion batteries they build up resistance right From the amount of cycles, from the amount of charging cycles that they, that they are able to do.
Speaker 2:So you know, just like you charge your phone a bunch of times, and over time it'll start to get less and less efficient as well as you're able to have less and less I'll just say less and less efficient and sometimes you find that your battery doesn't last as long. It's similar to same thing for, like electric vehicles. Well, that's a certainly a good one. And so you know, you're a hundred percent. Over time has the potential of becoming your now 90 percent. Right, it still is going to show as you're a hundred percent, of course, for your battery-wise, but the amount of range that you're getting out of your car is lower, is essentially the equivalent of having that 90 percent. But this study kind of takes, sheds a little bit more light on that and helps out, I think, a lot of non-EV owners when it comes to the scares that a lot of people have right.
Speaker 1:Well, and inviting them into becoming part of that lifestyle right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it alleviates those fears, I think, a little bit more for people, because I think everybody, you know, it's always something, the one thing that I hear all the time when people talk about oh, you know, when they talk about my car, they're like well, you know, good luck when you have to replace your battery or whatever, like that, because for some strange reason people think that you're going to replace your battery, you know, like every five years. Yeah, exactly Every five years.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm like, well, yeah, like you're taking out a double A battery and just like plugging it back in. Oh man, I got to get my whole new battery.
Speaker 1:Maybe I can roll it and get to keep working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, everybody loves to use that kind of same deal. But honestly I've talked about this many times right, nowadays, modern batteries, especially batteries that are in electric vehicles, are incredibly resilient as well as last quite a while. Right, you know, if, going from multiple different auto manufacturers, I use Tesla, for example, because that's kind of what this study is off of, but it kind of probably applies to most EVs is that you know, for Tesla right, you know it from the factor it comes with an eight year, 100,000 mile, depending on the variation, all the way up to like 150,000 mile warranty on your battery, your drivetrain, all that good stuff, and that's, that's eight years. So that's way beyond what most people you know. If we're looking at the typical cycle of when people get new cars, that goes far beyond that. Most people trade or get a new car within the five year mark, and so you know these batteries are lasting and this is just the warranty. Most studies have even found that people aren't even replacing their batteries even past that a year mark. But I digress. Anyway, going back to our battery degradation thing, I wanted to kind of get your opinion on this article because you know it's talking about superchargers and and one of the biggest things about that is, you know, superchargers is it's charging your battery super fast. It's charging it differently than what you would normally do at home, you know, other than just the speed it's it's pushing.
Speaker 2:So just for really quick context, another if you're plugging in your car directly into an outlet, plugging into your, and then you know, or plugging your, the Should be a charger, because technically the charger is a little different for EVs. Technically it's on board the vehicle. So actually what you're plugging in is like, just like a power supply kind of deal. Anyway, anyway, when you're plugging in I'm just going to just for simplicity when you're plugging in your charger into your vehicle, you you are using AC power, right? So this is AC power.
Speaker 2:And then there's a converter inside of your car that converts that AC current, which is, you know, what is commonly used within a regular household. It converts that into DC, which is what is used to actually charge the battery, right? So when you go to a supercharger, that is actually different, right? So that version of the of a, of a charger, is actually an actual charger because it's actually pushing direct current. So that's DC directly into the battery. So there's no conversion needed, it's just pumping it in there, and that's also why you can get much higher speeds, what you can have, much higher voltage as well, as you know just all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:And so I guess you know my thought, my, my big, one of my big questions to you is is like hearing this type of news that supercharging, you know a lot, doesn't make or makes a negligible difference when it comes to battery degradation than it did, than it does to just you know, like I don't know how to do half and half or even just barely using superchargers, Does this kind of? What's your thought process on this whole process, on this whole thing?
Speaker 1:I find it amazing. I mean, I think that you know you have to testify to the advancements of battery technology that should have, that should be approached with an open mind and be expected over the next 10 to 15 years. You know, as we you know, dennis and I have debated this on this podcast whether this is truly the set in stone future of automobiles, just due to other investments and other technology that we've seen. But regardless of that, I mean to make it so it can last just as long, but you're like good to drive in 20 minutes. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:If you're low on charge from your house.
Speaker 1:you have to have your house wired differently, Right?
Speaker 2:Or no, no, no. I mean, you're not going to get supercharger speeds for sure, yeah, at your home, but but you can get level two charging, which is still significantly faster than if I would have just plugged directly into, like my wall outlet, and so you would. You would wire your, you would like chain, you would create or add a plug, something similar to like a NEMA, nema five, or was it 15, 15, 20, something I can't remember right now, my brain is blanking, but it's essentially like the same plug that you would use for like a dryer. You could essentially just add that into wherever you're parking your vehicle and then plug it in there, and that's way faster than than the, you know, wall plug.
Speaker 2:Yeah 240 volt. Right, yeah, yep, yeah, 240 volts, 30 amps usually.
Speaker 1:Okay, gotcha, yeah, you know, it's just impressive, it really is, and the fact that that that's even a possibility, man, it's just amazing. But also to make it so you can do that from your home and be like, hey, man, I'm good to go. You know it's not having any more effect on my battery either, right, as it would for supercharging. So tell me like and maybe just explain to the audience too, how fast would that supercharging be done? You know, yeah, with that, with that rolling, is it like a five minute charge or what is it?
Speaker 2:Well, so sorry. So all it's really saying is for the article.
Speaker 1:Let me, let me, sorry, let me stop you real fast. Sorry, you mentioned phase two, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, phase two charging, or there it's just level two. So there's three different charging states.
Speaker 1:Level two right. So level two you can charge. In what? 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, it's, it's much longer than that. So. So level one is super duper slow. So that's like if I plug into the wall, right, so that's going to be, for instance, here at my apartment, I'm plugging directly into the into like a wall out in my garage and I will get about 20% charge and maybe a span of like, let's think, maybe 10 hours. So super slow, right, yeah, um, a level two charger would get you somewhere in the ballpark of, say you're at 20%. It'll get you all the way up to say you're charging up to 90% and maybe around six to seven hours. Wow, so significantly faster than a level one. And then a level three charger which is your DC fast chargers. Right, those are your super chargers.
Speaker 2:I have to say DC fast chargers because super chargers are is a brand technically, but if you were to go over to any other EVs that aren't using the Tesla supercharger network, they have DC fast charging which is supplied from a via various amount of different charging manufacturers or whatever like that.
Speaker 2:So, like Electrify, america, chargepoint, evgo, those are some of the you know big ones, but that now that is where you're looking at those 20 minute times, right, those, those 10, those 20 minute, 15 minute, depending on how fast that charger is. Some of EVs that are that charge at a much higher voltage than Tesla. So, for instance, like the Ionic five, if it's at 20% and it goes to a DC fast charger that is able to do a maximum of maximum of like 350 Watts, right, if it's able to get that the predicted charge time from 20, from 20% actually I think it's lower than 20%, I think it's like 10% to 80% is like 18 minutes. So you know, insanely fast, right, you plug in, done right. Okay, enough time for you, especially if you're going on like a long road trip. You can go to like a gas station and you know, get whatever you need, get back into your car and then you're essentially almost finished charging and then you can leave again.
Speaker 1:So okay, Well, that's good to know because I know I've experienced some pretty fast stuff with you man which has been absolutely amazing, you know. So that's my bad for not understanding it clearly.
Speaker 2:No, that's no, it's perfectly understandable. I mean, it's EVs are. It's one of those things that it makes sense once you're in it. But you know, from the outside looking at it it's a little bit confusing, and I think that is also a part of the fears that you know we were talking about the very beginning that a lot of people have is that it's like, oh man, it's going to take so long to charge. But I had that person there quite a bit and I just think it's a really good feeling that the way he really… yeah, Ok, I liked your accent a lot. Alright, In my time that I've owned an EV, I find that, more than not, you will not be waiting on a car.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people forget the thought process of, or don't understand or think of. I think a lot of people still think of EVs in the same regard as they're thinking of their gas-powered car, where I'm going to go to a pump and then I'm going to fill it up and then I'm going to go. Sure, that has happened on, say, a road trip or something like that, but in most cases you're going to plug your car in at night at home, charge up. It's essentially like you have a gas station at home. Right, you charge up, you go to sleep, you come back to your car, you're fully charged, you have a full tank of gas in a different way and then you go. Right.
Speaker 2:This study makes it even nicer because, with this proves and this was done over a decent amount of time and it was sampled from I originally thought it was like 20,000, but it was 12,500 Tesla vehicles where they were gathering this data this is nice because, again, I think that was another thing that a lot of EV owners have is that you want to make sure that you have the lowest amount of battery degradation. So, again, the amount of range maximum range you'll have as time goes on will slowly decrease, like any battery, and so a lot of EV owners were very scared of doing a lot of supercharging because that puts a lot of stress on the battery. The more stress they get from the battery, the more resistant it resistance it slowly starts to create, which leads to higher amounts of battery degradation. That's the simplest way to think of it.
Speaker 2:Same reason why most EV owners aren't recommended to charge all the way to 100%. You're usually going to charge somewhere around 90% to 80% battery, unless you're going on a long road trip, because of the amount of stress that it puts on the battery, Same as when you're plugging in your phone. You plug in your phone. You can plug it into the fastest charger you want. It'll jump up to 70% and then it gets real slow.
Speaker 1:Yes, because it's so quick. So monitoring how much electricity comes into the battery.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yes, because since it's nearly full, it can only take in so many electrons. It can't take in as many as it could before. Yes, right, so yes, I feel like this just opens up another world for EV owners, as well as potential EV owners, to be able to fully take advantage of the car, the vehicle. I think I was speaking to one of my coworkers who also recently purchased a Tesla and he was saying he's like you know, all of this has just been kind of slowly telling me like I can just drive my car, like I don't have to really worry as much as I thought I had to, I just drive my car and then everything's good.
Speaker 1:Like you know, yeah, but you have to pull. So do you think this is my next question really that that charging capability of doing those super fast chargers, will become more accessible for homeowners and stuff like that in the near future, like or in the coming years? You know the thing I'm thinking about, right, when electric cars start rolling out. They talked about I forget what the title of this is called, but you know, oh, inductive charging yes, so you can. That would be a heavy install rate. I just want to warn people. But you could have where you just drive your car over and it's through the concrete charging, the battery of your car right under here, and that could go at a level that reaches level three charging like you're talking about you know, I don't.
Speaker 2:honestly, I don't think so, and I'll explain the reason why. It's because the problem the inductive charging is cool, but I think it's more of a cool concept because you're losing a lot of. It's similar because it's essentially just like wireless charging, right, wireless charging for your phone or anything like that. The issue that I have with that is that, one, your house isn't going to be wired to be able to deliver that amount of electricity. Not like that You'd have to have like a whole. There'd be like a whole different thing that you'd have to do. But two, there's just so much loss of energy that would happen within that transference, within heat, from heat as well as as well as just you know, of course energy not being everywhere.
Speaker 1:Energy's really just carrying it away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So you're just losing a lot of energy and you would be pushing out more energy than you're actually receiving, so I don't think it would actually make sense. Honestly, it would be cool, and I can see it for slower applications right, I could see something similar to where, instead of in parking lot having a whole bunch of like EV chargers right, it's just EV parking spots you literally park in there and then boom, you're good to go. I could see something like that. Right, it can be a nice slow trickle charger. It doesn't have to put out a huge amount of power and it's just topping you up a little bit, right?
Speaker 1:Well, and you know also, if you have equipment that's entirely electric, right, like a blow or a lawn mower, those kind of things, you can set it over a panel in your garage and it just charges right back up. That's a great way to make use of it, just like you do with your phones currently, you know, like some of your phones. So yeah, that's interesting. So then I guess my next question would be I know we might be deviating a little bit, but does that leave the level three charging for main institutions to sell on the road you?
Speaker 2:know how. So what do you mean by sell?
Speaker 1:Well, so rather than you being able to install it in your house, you have to make sure that you have to go, just kind of like how you go to gas stations, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is that as a profit potential?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's always been like that. Any super fast DC charging is just because of the infrastructure of it.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what it is. If it will stay that way, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I think that's just going to be a regular thing. I think it'll be just like gas stations as it is now. I think chargers will eventually become synonymous and have the same, you know, interfaces as regular gas station pumps or whatever like that is just. It'll be a little bit slower.
Speaker 2:I do think there are a couple of unforeseen things that we need to work out, one of which I think a lot of people aren't really thinking about, or at least talking about I think, or I don't see a lot of, and happily we haven't had to deal with that much of it.
Speaker 2:But I think, using DC chargers, they, while they are relatively fast, they're fast but I do think there can be something like a safety concern because, similar to like, if you're at a pump, like a gas station pump, but at least within the gas station pumps, you will usually finish filling up within the five to six minute range or something like that, where EVs is a little bit longer. So there is a possibility of more problematic crimes or whatever like that to happen. So I do think that is something to think about and I think it's something that hasn't really been brought up just because right now we haven't had to worry too much about it, but I do think it is something that as EVs become more and more prevalent, more people or we need to probably find better ways to kind of secure that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I feel that, man, yeah, I think that that's a good way to look at that. And that's actually something I've been wondering about for a little while is how that will all work out, because, for a reason, there's an opportunity there to really gain money off this stuff, just like ExxonMobil and those kind of companies do. And, by the way, I read this thing, bro, that ExxonMobil has been lying about how it's changing its focus, when really, behind the scenes, it's been rolling out a huge rollout to keep people buying gas. Yeah, I don't fully know what that looks like or what that means for the future, but you have to believe that with those type of companies, there's going to be a battle, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know what I can. Going back to some of the stuff that we've talked about before, I can easily see them being one of the bigger pushers of alternative or synthetic fuels. Yeah, because, again, that keeps people in gas powered vehicles that are using something that maybe they create, or even requires the stuff that they create or they make, like oil or something similar to that, to continue to keep them in those vehicles for a long haul. So I can see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and that's going to be kind of a big thing, right it's a fight for that. Well, man, I was thinking. So it's just interesting to talk about how our advancements in technology right, they just bring this like dramatization, or really this big debate over the future of what they're used for. You have to be a lot more believing in favor of what electric vehicles would be used for, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the electrification future is probably most likely going to be our biggest thing, I think you know, just looking at a lot of the things that we have to do for climate change, as well as a lot of the new possibilities that renewable energies provide. I think they do. They, of course, provide their own challenges, but I think they provide a lot more upsides than they do, than they have beforehand. So I do think that is something to think about too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I completely agree. Why else did you? I wanted to check in, where else did you want to lead this, this topic, bro?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the last thing that I really wanted to talk about, too, about this, is that this also it's something that I've talked about multiple times before and in some ways, I still kind of stand by it, but I do think that this article helps lead a little bit more context in which.
Speaker 2:A little bit more context when it comes to like other things Sorry, my brain was trying to go through so with this lower degradation that you get from using a supercharger or something similar to that, what that tells me and it's something that I've been seeing I'm a super nerd, so I love to like jump on car forms and all sorts of other things whenever I get a new car or something like that and get to talk to other people who have. You know, whatever the car is that I have and that was one thing that I kept hearing, and for a long time, just because of the information that I have known before this article right is that I had started to see more and more people who live in apartments getting EVs and and charging those EVs solely at superchargers not charging them anywhere else, but getting those EVs and charging them solely at superchargers and that is their only means of charging their, their, their electric vehicle.
Speaker 2:And that or sorry.
Speaker 1:Why is that their only means?
Speaker 2:Because they don't have a a way, you know, if they're not someone like, for instance, me I live in an apartment and I charge my EV and I purchased a garage right a garage that's not attached to my apartment unit but is a part in my apartment community. I have in a garage, I parked my car there and I can plug it in. Some. If someone decides that they don't want to do that, they don't want to or they can't afford to buy a garage or there's not a garage available in their community, you know their only other means of superchar or their only other means of charging their vehicle is to supercharge it and in some ways that kind of some ways kind of takes away some of the advantages of owning an EV. But in some ways it doesn't right. You're at that point. You're just treating the EV like a gas powered vehicle and you're still probably coming out at a much cheaper, at a much cheaper rate than you would to to fill up your own gas powered vehicle.
Speaker 2:Actually, I think I remember one of my same co-worker that I had talked to before. He also lives in an apartment and he said he went to the supercharger super late at night because the charging, the. There's the way Tesla does. It is like there's a surge charging essentially. So it's essentially during like high rush hour charge, high times where more energy is being used, they up the prices to try to lower the amount of people who are using them. So he said he was at like 20%. He went to the supercharger and charged all the way up to 90% and he was able to get to that point with I think that's it.
Speaker 1:Bless you. Sorry about that he's dabbing on.
Speaker 2:Bless you, bro, I am, I am. Oh, thank you, but essentially he was able to get all the way up to 100% from 20% with for like A-bucks.
Speaker 1:Wow, Wow, that's amazing. I mean, that's what people don't understand. You know what I mean. They all understand how effective that is. I mean, even when you're playing paying supercharge, territory pricing right.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, it's because he was charging it, you know, in off-time, off busy times, and so he was able to Sorry, it was non-busy times and so he got a much cheaper charging rate and, yeah, he got to fill up for a whole A-bucks, which is kind of crazy, right, you know, you can't get that with gas not at all. And so what I was really trying to say throughout this whole process is that I think this kind of opens it up more to people, for EV owners, for more EV owners to show up in apartment communities, because I have always said and in some ways, like I said, I still kind of say this, but I have always said that it, the entry, the barrier to entry, is not just the price, it is the requirements in some ways, in some forms or fashion, to have to that you, that, in some ways, you need to properly use right. And so that is where the whole I stated this once before where, sure, once you get past the price, you still need to kind of almost have a house because you get the advantage of being able to charge it home. You have a more stable charging environment rather than having to do the chaos I felt like at the time was more chaos charging of being able to go to a supercharger and having to charge up and all sorts of other stuff. And so now that this shows that there's little to no degradation, or at least negligible degradation, then your average degradation, I should really say, from supercharging, that tells me that more people, especially now that Teslas are getting cheaper right, you can get a used Tesla for I've seen some for 20 grand or not 20 grand, but it's closer to like 27 grand, 2079.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is insane, right, as well as the tax incentives that are out there, it makes it even more and more compelling for anybody to buy an EV, and so that is one thing that I feel is really really big about this study and why it's so important is because, again, it's like I was telling, like I said earlier, you know you can get an EV with all the other things that you can get, but you can get an EV with all the other things that you can get. You know you can get an EV with all the advantages and just drive it and not have to work so much about like this or that or do I need to replace my battery or whatever, like that Plus you have. There is a certain level of ease of mind that you get because you don't have to worry about looking at. When it comes to maintenance wise, there's like two things that I need to worry about for the most part, which is brake pads and tires.
Speaker 2:But even brake pads aren't something that I'm going to be charging or I'm going to be changing a lot it's super rare. And tires is something, but that is a little bit more frequent but it's not that bad. But when it comes to like thinking about road trips, that's even with a cast powered vehicle you want to make sure all your fluids are top-top. You make sure your coolant's good. You want to make sure your oil is good. You want to make sure, if you haven't changed your oil, change that oil.
Speaker 1:You want to make sure that everything looks good and pristine and you know, as an EV, no, I mean that's just a good point, I mean it's not different, it's just the focus is different, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And, honestly, more effective and less time consuming. Really, yeah, you know. Yeah, I mean it cut you off with that. No, no, you're good, but you know. One thing I was thinking too is that you know, I think people often get caught up in. If I'm buying an electric car, it's this much more Oftentimes it is. You just mentioned how, like used to, tesla's, for example, are becoming more affordable, but it's hard for me outside looking in man. But if you really like, do the math and find out how affordable charging is or could be and bank on the fact that it's becoming more accessible, and then you say, ok, I get a child, or I get a child tax credit, but a car tax credit back by buy this right. What I think it doesn't work for is people that keep cars short term right. But if you keep your cars long term, it can end up either averaging out and being better for the environment or being cheap in the long run. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, you're right. Yeah, being able to that's becoming a growing trend, you know. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think you're, I think you're completely right, I think it's it's something short term. It's not super great, but I think for sure if you're, if you're in the market, but I feel like your short term car buyers usually aren't actually buying their cars or leasing their cars, so that's a little bit Right.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly, like a three year lease or something like that For sure.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. But yeah, I mean if you're, if you're buying a car for a long time, right, you know, like I know, me and my family, we we tend to be more people who, you know, we drive the car until the tires fall off, is what we usually say. You know, if you're, if you're that type of car buyer, then I think EVs, you know, make a huge amount of sense and you're, you're saving quite a bit, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, well, you know you're not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know, and let's see. I'm sure that there's a lot of other people watching right now that feel the exact same way. So if you feel the exact same way, let us know in the comments, man. But yeah, no, it definitely is one of those things. And, look, this is a change for me. Those people have watched the show for a long time. They've known that this is something I've learned and, quite honestly, something I've experienced thanks to you, man. You've been great at showing me and expanding my knowledge on this firsthand, and it's getting to a point where, depending on what you're looking at probably not for me with my needs or wants right now, but depending on what you're looking at if you want a car that could haul a good amount of people and be good on the environment and be affordable in the long haul, you'd want to start looking at electric vehicles, man, especially if the gas is going to go up to three, seventy nine again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, see, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:I had. You know what's really funny about that? I don't even look at gas prices anymore.
Speaker 1:Right, it's kind of fine to think about, yeah.
Speaker 2:Gas stations. I barely go to those. I go to those to, like, clean my windshield or, I don't know, get something.
Speaker 1:Oh, really Really. That's why it's a convenient store for Dennis and it is a convenient store for me. Yeah, I know, I know, but see, that's the thing I was thinking of earlier when we were talking about keeping those supercharging abilities only at Different locations. Excuse me, oh, it is just simply, I would say, to build those stores around them and entice people to come in and buy stuff from them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, are you all right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's. I think that's the not too distant future, man. Honestly Well, I don't know if you have anything more to add, man, I think we really kicked this in the tail. I think so too man.
Speaker 1:Two completely neurodivergent topics and we wrapped them up together with a little chocolate, a little caramel oh man, snickers, you know what I'm saying. Mm, hmm, so thank you guys so much for tuning in. We really appreciate it. Please let us know what you think of this episode by leaving a rating or a view. Jump on the live stream with us every Thursday, give us a follow and make sure you get those notifications so you can jump in and discuss with us in real time and check out our shop. If you want to buy any cool catch up podcast, merch, we know you'll love it.
Speaker 1:I know firsthand which is not something you typically brag about with your own merch, but you'll love it. So, with that said, man, I think we have had a good one. I think we have had a good one. Thank you guys. So much for listening. Thank you for watching. I will catch up with you next week.
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